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Author Topic: Water contamination....  (Read 5123 times)

Offline Parts/Service

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Water contamination....
« on: December 31, 2008, 02:03:24 am »
Warranty Limitations
DaimlerChrysler is not responsible for failures or damage resulting from what DaimlerChrysler determines to be abuse or neglect, including, but not limited to: operation without adequate coolants or lubricants; overfueling; overspeeding; lack of maintenance of cooling, lubricating or intake systems; improper storage, starting, warm-up, run-in or shut down practices; unauthorized modifications to the engine. DaimlerChrysler is also not responsible for failures caused by incorrect oil or fuel or by water, dirt or other contaminants in the fuel or oil.

OK now that the legal junk is out of the way.  Have a 2008 6.7L with 25,000 miles in my shop right now that is skipping.  Pulled the needle connector and it is covered in rust due to water contamination.  Had the pleasure of calling the owner and telling him that I could not cover this under warranty.  I know it sucks, but I have to return the parts back to Cummins for inspection.  If I send the parts back, Cummins will not pay for the warranty repair and will probally void his warranty.  The injectors are $1440.00 each and the connector is $108.00.  Best case the truck will need 1 injector and needle, 2nd best case is to replace EVERYTHING that fuel touches including all lines, injectors, needles and fuel rail.  Worst case is the engine may be toast. 

The customer was to say the least, not very happy. 

The point of this post is to remind you guys/gals to drain the water from your fuel filter at least once a month. 

The camera died after 2 pics, so I could not get a pic of what a new needle looks like, but you can see the rust on the one we pulled out...

Offline lilfroger

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Re: Water contamination....
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2008, 04:10:45 am »
OK so here is my million dollar question on the water / fuel issue Dave.

We have this great warning light... Water in Fuel.

If that doesn't go off shouldn't that indicate the gauge / sensor is faulty thus making the issue a Dodge problem?

From Owners manual:

Water In Fuel Indicator
Indicates there is water detected in the fuel filter bowl. Refer to the Maintenance section, Draining Fuel/Water Separator Filter, for water drain procedure. (See page 387 for more information.)

Do not drain the fuel/water separator filter when the engine is running.

Drain a small amount from the fuel/water separator filter periodically or when the WATER IN FUEL indicator lamp is on. Pull outward on the drain valve lever, located on the side of the filter, and allow any accumulated water to drain. Hold the drain valve open until all water and contaminants have been removed. Close the drain release valve, by returning it to the inward position, when clean fuel is visible.

NOTE: The Fuel / Water separator drain valve is identified by its yellow handle and is located on the inboard side of the fuel filter housing. If more than a couple ounces of fuel has been drained, follow the directions below for “Priming if the engine has run out of fuel.

I swear I'm not being  a PITA or trying to give Dave a hard time .... it is a valid question I've had every time I see someone post about water / fuel issues.  If Dodge put the sensor in ... why doesn't it come on in time to prevent damage?
« Last Edit: December 31, 2008, 04:13:51 am by lilfroger »
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Offline lilfroger

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Re: Water contamination....
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2008, 04:26:45 am »
Did the customer have the P0169-WATER IN FUEL (WIF) LIGHT ON TOO LONG or P2266-WATER IN FUEL (WIF) SENSOR
VOLTAGE TOO LOW or P2269-WATER IN FUEL (WIF) codes?

In the owners manual it says to "Replace fuel filter element. Clean the water in fuel sensor" every 15K

What's the procedure for cleaning the sensor?
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Offline Mitch

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Re: Water contamination....
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2008, 04:52:52 am »
Valid point. Was the customers light on?  :popc:

2008 6.7

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Re: Water contamination....
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2008, 06:34:00 pm »
OK so here is my million dollar question on the water / fuel issue Dave.

We have this great warning light... Water in Fuel.

If that doesn't go off shouldn't that indicate the gauge / sensor is faulty thus making the issue a Dodge problem?


He said that the light never came on but the engine was "skipping" and he drove it "skipping" for several hundred miles.   I agree the light is useless.  I called the star hot line to ask their opinion.  The guy there said "well the sensor is not really that accurate".   I have asked this question many times to Dodge rep's and have never gotten a satisfactory answer.  The hot line guy directed me to a tech tip that explains what they suggest to do to solve the contamination problem.  The check engine light was not on.  Jo, I know you are asking a valid question and not being a PITA. I don't think it is fair to customers to have to pay and the sensor should be more sensitive.
It should be something the the fuel supplier should be held responsible for.  Its not a defect of the truck that contaminated fuel was put into it but there should be a better way to detect the contaminants. 


For fuel contamination situations, it is recommended to replace the entire fuel system:
•  fuel transfer pump
•  fuel filter
•  high pressure fuel pump
•  fuel manifold (rail)
•  High Pressure Connector Tube's (HPCT's)
•  fuel injectors
•  and if necessary fuel lines
This is done to prevent individually replaced components from failing prematurely due to contaminants which cannot be flushed from the contaminated fuel system.

NOTE: Any fuel system component with moving parts, the fuel manifold (rail) and the HPCT's cannot be completely flushed out. If the complete fuel system is NOT replaced together, debris remaining in contaminated components will likely contaminate just-replaced components and cause a repeat failure.
NOTE: Fuel injector failure(s) could cause severe engine damage such as damaged piston(s), scored cylinder(s), valve and valve seat damage and damage to the turbocharger


The sensor sends an input to the Engine Control Module (ECM) when it senses water in the fuel filter/water separator. As the water level in the filter/separator increases, the resistance across the WIF sensor decreases. This decrease in resistance is sent as a signal to the ECM and compared to a high water standard value. Once the value reaches 30 to 40 kilohms, the ECM will activate the water-in-fuel warning lamp through CCD bus circuits. This all takes place when the ignition key is initially put in the ON position. The ECM continues to monitor the input while the engine is running. 

Offline lilfroger

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Re: Water contamination....
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2008, 06:38:23 pm »
Thank you Dave for the info!  Glad I'm not the only one who thinks that if there is a 'safe guard' in place it should catch the problem.


It should be something the the fuel supplier should be held responsible for.  Its not a defect of the truck that contaminated fuel was put into it but there should be a better way to detect the contaminants. 


One thing you might want to suggest to the customer is to contact their automobile insurance company.

I've seen a few guys who've gotten fuel / water repairs taken care under their full coverage because it is the fuel companies fault.  (Like hitting a pot hole in the road type thing)

If you can find the 'cleaning' procedure for the sensor that would be GREAT!




Also guys remember this is not only a 6.7 issue; we all have the water / fuel separator and we all need to be checking this.
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Re: Water contamination....
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2008, 06:51:52 pm »
He called his insurance company and they are taking care of the bill. 
The cleaning procedure I found is "Gently wipe the Water-In-Fuel (WIF) sensor probes inside of the filter housing with a soft cloth to remove any debris"

Offline lilfroger

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Re: Water contamination....
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2008, 06:53:09 pm »
That is GREAT news Dave!!!! 
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Offline Mitch

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Re: Water contamination....
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2008, 07:20:12 pm »
Wheeew, thats a load off his chest there. That would suck!

2008 6.7

Offline Cujo

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Re: Water contamination....
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2008, 08:34:50 pm »
Maybe it's me just being paranoid, I always make sure I get a receipt every time I fuel up. I keep an envelope in the center console, if I were to get a bad batch of fuel, I can prove where it came from. The fuel source should be responsible for what they are selling. If nothing else it also gives your insurance company someone to go after should they foot the bill.
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Offline Mitch

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Re: Water contamination....
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2008, 09:16:10 pm »
I have every fuel receipt from every single fill up since I bought the truck last Janaury.

2008 6.7

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Re: Water contamination....
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2009, 01:35:26 am »
Maybe it's me just being paranoid, I always make sure I get a receipt every time I fuel up. I keep an envelope in the center console, if I were to get a bad batch of fuel, I can prove where it came from. The fuel source should be responsible for what they are selling. If nothing else it also gives your insurance company someone to go after should they foot the bill.

This is a very good idea.

Offline Mike Bolser

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Re: Water contamination....
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2009, 02:19:54 am »
Maybe it's me just being paranoid, I always make sure I get a receipt every time I fuel up. I keep an envelope in the center console, if I were to get a bad batch of fuel, I can prove where it came from. The fuel source should be responsible for what they are selling. If nothing else it also gives your insurance company someone to go after should they foot the bill.

...and write your mileage down on the receipt to keep track of your MPG.  I have a notebook in my console and log mine, but keeping the receipt sure helps in this situation.

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Offline i11m10c2

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Re: Water contamination....
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2009, 05:42:58 am »
Is it just me or do those pins loook like they have realy thin and cheap plating on them? If so even a minute amount of moisture that would be insignificant in a normal operating situation would cause rust to form on bare metal.

 I say this because ive seen this on another type of vehicle and it was blamed on bad fuel,But after contract office did some investigating found plating was under spec and threw that back at OEM supplier.

Offline noplugs

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Re: Water contamination....
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2009, 06:27:13 am »
Maybe it's me just being paranoid, I always make sure I get a receipt every time I fuel up. I keep an envelope in the center console, if I were to get a bad batch of fuel, I can prove where it came from. The fuel source should be responsible for what they are selling. If nothing else it also gives your insurance company someone to go after should they foot the bill.

...and write your mileage down on the receipt to keep track of your MPG.  I have a notebook in my console and log mine, but keeping the receipt sure helps in this situation.

Mike



I just ran into a man yesterday who had his fuel system trashed by a bad batch of diesel from a Citgo. His insurance covered the 10k replacement cost and sued the Citgo station to get the money back.

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